Entlebuchers and Temperament: Letters from Owners

Labs vs Entlebuchers...

Labs were "my breed" before Entles. I got Henri, my first Entle, when my last old Lab was alive. If anything Henri's whirlwind arrival hastened Ches's demise. Henri moved into the alpha slot at about five months of age. I absolutely love Entles and they are my passion but I would in no way compare Entle puppies to Lab puppies. Labs are very, very active and energetic as pups but do not have the intensity, the persistence, the almost pathological attachment to their owner, the focus and, most obviously, the very strong herding instincts that Entles have (jumping, nipping etc). After 18 months to two years of active puppy-like behavior I found that abs typically turned into pretty mellow, laid back companions. Henri is now going on 8 and is every bit as active as he was when younger, with the same need for physical activity. The same is true of my other Entles. I realize that an only Entle may not be quite as active as a pack of Entles tends to be but I believe the differences between this breed and most others is striking and critical for prospective owners to truly understand and accept.

From Kathleen and Henri

High Energy...

It is an emotional issue for many of us with high-energy dogs. But, as many of you already know, I am a very big supporter of obedience classes and skilled trainers. I have and always will have, Caspar in some type of class - whether it is advanced obedience, agility, tracking, and therapy, whatever. The point is not to win trophies, medals, or abbreviations behind his name - the point is to keep him working, focused, socialized, and behaved as a well mannered dog. It hasn't happened overnight (just ask Teri or Jan), but because I "earned the right to be Alpha" (to quote Gina) over time with DAILY effort. My dog is exactly what I expected with an entlebucher - and I was prepared to put forth the effort to train him appropriately.

I'm not saying that there aren't difficult dogs, mellow, fiesty etc. What I do believe, is that even with the gentlest tempered dog - if you do not train them, you are setting the dog up for failure. Breeders can only give you so much with a good program. That is why we choose a BCOE breeder - her support throughout breeding, early socialization, experience through his puppyhood, constant support for my ENDLESS questions - has given us the framework from which to grow together as a team and partnership - mom and dog. I have never - nor can I expect anyone to do it for me. (Thank you Teri!!)

From Leann and Caspar

Adventuresome spirit...

I have been hesitant to criticize my dogs behavior thinking that folks might say" well she's just not good with dog's" or "well if she had a bigger place..". But there have been times with Brandy when she was in her first year I just wanted to scream with frustration at what she was destroying or disobeying, She is a lot better than when she was in her first year, but she is still eating holes in the drywall. I feel that exercise is the key to better behavior for her, "A tired dog is a good dog". She is a loving devoted dog with a adventursome sprit. That "spirit" takes her out of the house whenever she carefully slips out through the gate in an unlocked moment.. Too darn smart. But I do love her; she sleeps under the blankets with me!

From Wendy, Carson, and BRANDY

True Working Dogs

More thoughts.... This subject is near and dear to my heart so please forgive me if it's long-winded. I have an alpha Entle, and I believe she is totally a "working dog", not just a pet - even though she was purchased as "pet quality" (her markings are not quite correct). Working dog because of her intelligence, stubbornness and strong will. If I allowed her to just be a "pet" then we would have havoc at our house. And yet, she scored "middle of the road" on her temperament testing. She was not extreme for the breed, she tended to be more affectionate than the other pups. But I digress a little... Perhaps the relevant issue right now is EDUCATION. Educating members as well as potential Entle buyers. Entlebuchers were not originally bred to be pets, they were bred to be working dogs. Guardians of the farm, cattle herders, cart pullers. Farm work is constant, grueling work - sun-up to sun-down. They have a level of intelligence and independence to work without guidance, to make split decisions (i.e. with cattle). To take a dog bred for that kind of work ethic and activity level and try to make it a pet - in our current social conditions - is going to be difficult. I think we have to know and expect that. Entlebuchers are NOT appropriate for the average pet owner, no matter how much the pet owner desires an Entlebucher. My opinion: what we need to do to reduce the number of dogs being re-homed, etc., is to emphasize this point more strongly. Potential buyers need to be very active people. Training and working with this type of dog is a life-time commitment, not just for puppy-hood. You have to keep the dog's mind busy, help the dog fulfill a purpose - else it will take that energy and focus it in what we would term as "inappropriate ways". Potential buyers need to ask potential breeders questions like: Where did this pup score on the temperament test? Is this pup more or less independent than the others? Describe the type of prey-drive this pup has. Has the pup been imprinted with children, cats or other animals, etc. And questions that should be asked long before this are: Does the breeder do temperament testing performed by an independent behavioralist? What socialization does the breeder do with the puppies? What type of pups has this breeding pair produced in the past? (The last question could be difficult since we're dealing with a small gene pool and we don't typically breed the same pair very many times.) Ask the breeder if you can interview owners of previous offspring

From Colleen and Cinder

Breed Descriptions...

Hi, I too love the Fogle book from Dorling Kindersley. Their books are always full of great photos - a true feast for dog lovers. But the descriptions are brief - the entle is "affable" "eager to please" and "good companion." The appy description is briefer: "excellent herding dog" and "efficient guard."

I have been impressed with the descriptions of the two breeds in the 1995 Barron's book, The Bernese and Other Mountain Dogsî and the numerous photos allow one to get a good feel for the dogs. I have an appy pup as well as a 4 year-old entle who fits the description of the appy better than that of the entle!

Excerpts: Entle:
"Temperament: The Entlebucher is not only a faithful watchdog, and companion; over its long years of service as a cattle herder and drover, it's demonstrated one thing above all: its independence and its ability to size up a situation with lightning speed. Yet, despite all its keenness and independence, it always likes to be near 'its' people. It will forgive some mistakes by an inexperienced trainer. Entlebuchers are born optimists, who make sure there's always life in the party. Sometimes they do it quite loudly, admittedly, so you should take pains even with puppies to be sure they don't learn to enjoy yapping. An Entlebucher gets along very well with other animals. Living Conditions: The Entlebucher can be happy in a large city apartment, but it needs regular exercise. The inventors of the agility competition.... must have been thinking of the Entlebucher when they created this new leisure-time activity. An Entlebucher is almost peerless in its agility and flexibility. It loves to swim in any kind of water."

Appenzeller: Temperament: "It shows reserve with strangers more strongly than its kindred, sometimes even exhibiting open mistrust. But it'll go through fire for its master or mistress. It announces strangers in its relatively high voice - that of the male being usually higher than that of the female- relentlessly and incessantly until its master tells it to stop. The Appenzeller is incredibly quick and almost unrestrainable in its eagerness to work. It is very keen, has an inherited urge to act independently, and possesses amazing perceptive faculties. Living Conditions: the Appenzeller must always have something to do; otherwise its temperament is almost uncontrollable. Offer it challenges as a companion in jogging, walking, with bicycling, or on mountain hikes. It loves boisterous play. The Appenzeller needs consistent and intelligent training and a constant, stable pack relationship. Whereas the Entlebucher will forgive its owner some faults in living conditions or training, the Appenzeller quickly demonstrates who is the real boss. Then its strong drive to guard can become independent, even to the point of viciousness. It notices the scents of wild animals, but as a rule it scarcely bothers about them. Rather, it watches over its family during walks. The Appenzeller never passes up a chance for a total bath in a lake or stream."

I think my two dogs switched temperaments! But even though Boggle is more appy than entle, she is a true entle in that she has forgiven her owner the many mistakes she made :) Twister is still too young for us to figure out where on this continuum she'll be. But she does have that high-pitched voice. UGH! We are definitely teaching her the "speak" command in the hopes that in so doing we also create an off switch!

Gail Ryan, Boggle and Twister

BOLD and Bossy...

My poor training instructor has now experienced 3 entles--our Lucky and Penny, and a pup Jake who lives nearby. She says there is no other breed like them, and one of the phrases she uses is "bold." Which is why I thought of this, after reading Gail's e-mail. They do seem incredibly bold in many ways, even with their different personalities. Lucky is just bold all the way around--not particularly dominant, but he just won't back down from anything. He greets every human with supreme confidence, and when it comes to livestock, he seems to believe "the ornerier the better."

Penny is submissive to other dogs and to people she doesn't now, but in her work she is as bold as they come. She tears up the agility course and flyball course, and I can't imagine her backing down from any livestock. The one time we did a haphazard test on sheep, my herding instructor was caught off guard when miss shy girl turned into a lightening fast, hard-hitting cattle dog as soon as she was released on the sheep. And Jake--well, the instructor said he was very bossy when he first started coming to classes at four months. Had to do a lot of work with him to make sure he didn't take over the family in his house.

Would you say your entles are bolder than the average dog?

Alice Madar, Lucky and Penny

Answers to lots of questions...

Becki,

If you're going to Entlefest in Seattle, you will learn much there - and have lots of fun in the process. Its always better to experience them for yourself as well as talk to the owners. Many of the qualities you're looking for are common in Entle's. But its good to do your research and great to know what personality style you're looking for. As with any breed, the individual personalities range a little.

Here's some answers to your questions from my perspective as an Entle owner:

Stubborn - I don't know Huskies, but my Entle can be stubborn - but its not a refusal to do what you ask. It's more like she knows a better way to accomplish the goal and she'll show you. She'll do what I ask, yet get what she wants too. This speaks to the incredible intelligence of Entle's.

Cattle Herding - Yes, absolutely. Entle's are robust, strong dogs and do very well with cattle - its what they were bred for. I've heard that Entle's can be intimidating with sheep but I have no experience with this. Except that I KNOW my Entle would intimidate a sheep.

Shedding: I don't know where you live geographically. Entle's do better in cooler climates. In cooler climates they do not shed much, but they do blow their coats twice a year. In warm climates, you will have more shedding. But grooming is very easy. No matts or tangles to brush - they always seem to look freshly groomed except when they've just walked out of a mud puddle. All I have to do is trim her nails regularly.

Follow you everywhere - Next to you is the only place an Entle wants to be. Count on it. Entle's bond strongly with their human pack. They will run ahead on the trail, but regularly check back with you. I can't even use the facilities alone. But I wouldn't have it any other way - if she's not with me I feel like something's missing.

Children - Entle's are very good with children especially when raised with them. They seem to sense that they need protection and gentleness. But, a rambunctious Entle puppy must always be watched with small children as they can knock a baby off its feet with sheer exuberance. Entle's are quite solid little dogs. But children also need to be taught how to issue commands and insist on obedience, since some Entle's tend to want to be alpha in their pack. A strong, intelligent cattle herding dog may not see the logic of obeying little people unless the little people are taught to insist on it.

Self control - You hit the nail on the head. A puppy - NO. An adult Entle who has been well trained and knows its order in the pack will have self control - but only if YOU have been consistent and insist on it. Entle's are capable of learning ANYTHING you want (in fact, they are EASY to train because of their extreme food drive) - but you have to be consistent and firm even when they try to con you out of it.

You'll see what I mean about all this at Entlefest. Safe trip and enjoy!!!

Colleen and Cinder

More answers

Hi Becki,

Forgive any repetition of what Colleen already wrote that I might give in response to your questions, but I think it's important that you get a lot of different perspectives. Many of the responses you'll get will be dependent on the individual personalities of the dogs various people have, since breed traits are really just general guidelines and individual dogs can have very different personalities. Regarding stubbornness, it really depends on what you mean. Our Cricket can be very persistent, and definitely has a mind of his own, but I have yet to experience him trying to "blow me off" in the way that many people (not on this list) describe their dogs doing. Part of that may be my training approach; I believe that if my dog isn't getting it, the fault is mine and I need to change what I'm doing.

I've never owned a Husky, so I'm not much help with that comparison. I assist a local trainer, and we've had a few in class, but I've found them to be very intelligent, quick learners who do what works ‚ like any dog. If behaving in a way the owner doesn't like (e.g. pulling on lead) gets them what they want, they're not motivated to learn what the owner does like. If that's stubborn, then an Entle is it too.

> How proficient are Entle at herding cattle? I'll leave that to those who have done it. Cricket's only exposure to cattle has been the ones that graze on the public land where we hike, and they're really mean cows who don't take any crap from dogs. So far, Cricket has been very interested, but a little intimidated. (He'd be horrified to know I told anyone...)

> --How much do they shed? I'm guessing you're in the PNW, since you mentioned going to the Seattle Entlefest; by all accounts I've heard you could count on minimal shedding, with blown coat twice a year. Here in N Cal, Cricket sheds year-round, and quite a bit of it. He's super easy to groom, though. We use a rubber currycomb ($1.65 at the local feed store) and it picks up his hair beautifully. I bet if I were a little more regular with the brushing we'd have less hair all over the furniture. He's easy to bathe, too, and doesn't need it very often. Usually only after a dunk in the mudhole, which is one of his favorite things in the whole world.

> --I want a dog that will follow me everywhere. Now *that's* an Entle. Cricket will run ahead on a trail, but never out of sight. He turns around and waits for us after about 50 feet. He'll run off to explore, or dash madly around an open meadow, but always keeps an eye on us. When he's hot and/or tired, he's practically underfoot. At home, he's rarely in a different room; if we get up, he follows. He likes to keep both of us in sight, though if we're in separate rooms he'll pick one until it sounds like the other person is doing something interesting. Much of the time, he's right on top of us.

> --How good are they with kids? Cricket hasn't had a lot of exposure to children. Our young nieces are across the country, and the only child that we see regularly is nearly a teenager. However, when we're in public he's often been around children, and he seems to have an innate understanding that they're "breakable." He doesn't jump up on strollers, though we've had a lot of training to do to keep him from jumping on adults, and he rarely has tried it with young people. Generally, he only responds rambunctiously to children who run or solicit play. We've never had an issue calling him away from a child. Little boys seem to love to get dogs to jump on them, and in one case he did knock down a small boy who was trying to rile him up (at the dog park - fortunately, the boy's father seemed pretty familiar with the behavior and called off his child rather than getting angry with Cricket or us). Entle's are very solid dogs, and it's really important to train them to come when called and to greet without jumping, particularly with children and older people. I have no doubt that Cricket could knock over an adult if he tried, let alone someone small or frail.

Additionally, if you have a child over whom you have some authority (that is, not some stranger in a dog park) it's really important to teach him or her about appropriate human behavior with dogs in general, and about training and expecting obedience from a pet dog. The kid-dog bond can be a really special one, and doing lots of positive training together can be a great catalyst and strengthener. I don't recommend that children attempt any type of training that requires physical mastery of a dog...the dog always has the advantage there. Frankly, I feel that way about adults, too, but that's a whole different can of worms.

> I don't want a breed that will bite and ask questions later. This is just not a breed trait, for any breed. Generally, it's a sign of an individual dog with a personality disorder (extremely rare) or poor socialization and little training (unfortunately very common), or possibly poor socialization and too much of the wrong kind of training (e.g. dogfighting). I wouldn't eliminate from consideration any breed based on likelihood of biting a child - or an adult, for that matter - and even if I did, I'd start with some breeds that most people don't think of as biters. We've had a ton of pit bulls and pit mixes in our classes, and without exception they've been the sweetest dispositions in the group.

> I can't trust my other dogs with her this well partly because...the Husky hates kids pulling her ears and tail... This goes to teaching children appropriate behavior with dogs. I hope you don't expect any dog to *enjoy* having ears or tail pulled? That's an awful lot to ask. If somebody poked me in the eye, I wouldn't like it either. Granted, if you don't have any authority over the child it's hard to entirely prevent this, but if a strange child tried to pull Cricket's ears, I would separate them immediately and remove him from the situation as quickly as possible. In the meantime, I trust that we have taught Cricket sufficient bite inhibition that he wouldn't hurt the child.

> Are Entles ball nuts? Mine sure is. He wasn't as a puppy, and it took some doing to transfer his affection from tug toy to tennis ball, but once it was done there was no stopping him. Now it's any ball, any time. Or rather, any ball, *all the time.* =) In fact, he's so ball fixated that he will ignore the opportunity to play with other dogs if there's an opportunity to play with a ball.

It's possible to train a ball-crazy dog to be polite, though. Cricket had the really annoying habit of trying to grab the ball when we went to pick it up to throw, and like one of yours he was fairly careless about fingers. So we taught him that the ball simply will not be picked up unless he is several feet away and in a "down." The trainer has to be consistent, though, so again if you're concerned about children the child has to understand the behavior expected of her, too. Fortunately, the more ball-motivated the dog, the easier it is to teach ball-manners.

> --How much self control can an Entle muster? Cedar can sit still and wait for his ball to be thrown very patiently. Is an Entle capable of this? Without a doubt. We started teaching Cricket patience as a very young puppy. Basically, as soon as he had "sit" under control (at around 9 weeks old) he started having to sit for his meals. That became sit and wait for his meals shortly thereafter. Now, Cricket will sit (staring at his full bowl on the floor and drooling profusely) until released, regardless of what we're doing. I can be in another room, or have my back turned, and he still waits. Ditto with the ball. I believe that even puppies are capable of a measure of self-control, within reason, and that the earlier it's taught the easier life will be for the owner. When positive reinforcement is used, there's no need to be concerned that the puppy will "shut down" over the training, and any failure is a learning opportunity for the trainer.

> As you can tell from above I am looking for a dog alot like the Aussie except with a short coat and cow smarts. I think that's a fair description, as far as it goes. The Aussie was one of the other breeds we considered, as was the Australian Cattle Dog/Queensland Heeler, because the breeds do seem to have a lot of similarities. As for individuals, your mileage may vary, but that's going to be true of any breed.

Best of luck with your dog choice. Entles are by no means the easiest dog in the world to own, but for us the challenges have been truly interesting, and the payoff is enormous. We adore Cricket and I can't imagine life without him.

From Susan and Cricket

Good Pet dogs?...

I think Entlebuchers have great obedience competition potential. But, ask me again once we start competing in obedience LOL :) Herding breeds excel at most of the dog sports & activities! As far as pets... I personally don't think Entlebuchers make the best pet dogs. Granted we all LOVE & are passionate about our Entles... & I think Entles are close to the PERFECT dog!

That said, the average owner who wants a pet, has different expectations. As Diane said, Bayla isn't barky, but others have different experiences. Nike our foster Entle, hasn't been very barky either, although she likes to hear her voice "more" than Bayla does. Both B & N are intense, in everything they do. I think they need more interaction than a lot of the more popular "family-type" dogs. I haven't met any German Shepherds with the same type of "herding" propensity. I would find easier comparisons of the Entle to other Cattle dogs like the Australian Cattle dog, which is also described as "not the best pet dog". The 2 living with me, I'd describe as- busy. They don't settle down or relax unless they have a REAL outlet for their intensity. Bayla is very mouthy & enjoys chewing. Due to our vigilance, she hasn't destroyed much & chews/destroys only appropriate things. In Bayla's 18 months, we've lost 1 TV remote control & she made a sawdust mess in our living room, from wood in our fireplace wood pile... she shreds her toys, but I deem that appropriate.

When considering an Entle, I'd be sure to meet some first. It will take effort, but is really the only way to get a better "feel" for what they are like (besides reading stories). PLEASE don't base any decisions on descriptions you read in ANY breed books!!

Best Wishes

Joyce & the girls

Challenging Bundle of Energy...

If you're the type of person who rises to a challenge, and the prospect of rising each morning to a life with a challenging bundle of pure Entle energy makes you as eager as your dog is going to be, then both of you are in for a wonderful ride. It's like the difference between a "flavored coffee drink", and a triple espresso. Some of us love the buzz, but you gotta be the type who thrives on the fact that it doesn't wear off with time. If you are, you'll STILL be saying, "I had no idea...," but you'll be saying it with a silly grin on your face!!!

From Mike and Hoku

Farm Dog on a mission...

I love your description of entles as the perfect dog, but not the best pet. That's exactly it, exactly the difference. He has the energy, the drive, the spirit I wanted in a dog. He makes the best companion. He is not particularly willing to be second on my list of things to do, he is not content to wait for me to look upon him and take him for a little walk. He needs much, much more than a pat on the head. He is not, in short, a pet. He's a dog.

Colya is the most amazing, wonderful, rewarding thing in my life. There is nothing better than opening my eyes every morning to his nose in my face and his wagging tail. But he has never, ever been easy. Not that he has been stubborn, or destructive, or aloof and mean. But he requires constant energy output. There is no lazing around with him. Before I got my entle, I was a dogsitter for a lab and a golden for quite a while. I wouldn't put them in the same category at all. The retrievers were both enthusiastic, sweet, loving dogs. But their personalities could be fairly easily bent to conform to the needs of their owners. Luckily, it is part of the entle personality to be so attached to their people that they want to please them. But I don't think that that should ever be mistaken for a personality that is easily bent or can be made to conform to the circumstances. Their desire to please can be channeled into behavior that is appropriate to me. But under that all is a farm dog on a mission, and that never goes away.

I guess I say all of this with a STRONG warning to people seeking a family pet and not a new family member. With these herding dogs, you have to realize that any expectation beyond what he's bred for (working, herding, protecting his farm and family) is asking more than he knows how to do instinctually, and you'll have to put the work in to train him to those expectations. The question isn't: What can these dogs do? They can do anything. The question is, with entles more than any other breed I've encountered: What can the owners do? Have high expectations, but be willing to work for them.

From Stephanie and Colya

Demanding Breed and the need to be alpha

I brought home our Entle puppy on 8/25, she was 9 weeks old when we did so. I have two young children, ages 1 and 4, so I knew we needed to be prepared. First, I have an excellent relationship with our breeder. She kept me informed every step of the way. She treated the puppies like her own children. We picked up Darby a week after the rest of her littermates were picked up. That may have been the best thing we did. She got to be alone with her mom and dad before she came home to her "human" family. When she came home, we put her in her crate, surrounded by play toys she and her littermates had played with. We picked Darby up early in the day, so she could be home with us for the majority of the day. She has never cried out at night (thank goodness).

The biggest and best thing we have done is let her know from the minute she stepped into our house what is expected of her. You sit before coming inside or going outside. Your paws are wiped before coming inside. Your teeth NEVER touch our children (use the gentle command). As Colleen has commented, they are extremely smart animals and their cutest will get them everything (if you let it). We had pick of the litter, but I let the testing determine which animal was for us. We started socializing Darby immediately. The first day was just for us, then we had people come over everyday. We waited about a week to introduce her to animals. She has been great. We read both of the books from the Monks of New Skete and "How to Raise a Puppy You Can Live With". We met numerous Entles before making our decision and spoke to even more on the phone.

Darby has learned to retrieve a ball, but prefers chasing after our 4 year old (with a very watchful mommy eye, those puppy teeth are sharp). Make sure you never let your guard down; you are the alpha at all times. These are great animals. My cousins own one and that is how we became interested. My biggest piece of advice is see as many as you can before you make that > final decision and talk to as many people as possible. They are a demanding breed and many people told me I was crazy, but I knew my own abilities and have found Darby to be a wonderful addition to our family. Much luck.

From Donna and Darby

If you have questions or comments, please contact Katlin@entlebuchers.net